Setting up your business with Barry de Graff

Good evening everyone, and welcome to the latest ASN FREE Q & A session with Barry de Graff on Setting up your own Bookkeeping Business. If you have any questions, please post as a comment below. Please be aware, if any questions are left unanswered, then they will be answered at a later time. And thank you all for participating…..now over to you, who has the first question?

Barry de Graff Evening folks. Who wants to be first? 🙂

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James Gilleade-Smith I have been learning the appropriate skills to do bookkeeping but wouldn’t reallly know what it would require to set up, such as registering a business and essentials to getting started

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Barry de Graff The only important registration initially is with HMRC once you think you that you have a viable business.

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Wren Bull Evening Barry, evening Natasha…

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Wren Bull I’ve recently completed my AAT Level 3, and will be going on to study Level 4. In the meantime, I’ve started a small bookkeeping business to build on the skills that I’ve learnt to date, and I’ve got everything in place re Money Laundering, Data Protection and PI cover. As a student member of AAT, do I need a Licence from them to provide bookkeeping services? As far as I can see I only have to apply for a licence if I’m going to call myself the new AATQB, MAAT or FMAAT. But if I have to apply for a licence, I have to provide proof of work experience which I’m not going to get until my own business gets going, which seems a bit Catch-22? I’m aware that doing voluntary unpaid work is a solution, but there’s not a lot of it around here…….

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Barry de Graff Anyone can set themselves up as a bookkeeper – it’s only if you want to refer to yourself as a member of AAT that you then to have approval from AAT. Can you confirm Natasha? I am a member of ICAEW and would need a practising certificate if I were to refer to myself as a chartered accountant.

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Natasha Everard You can trade but you must not say you are AAT qualified.

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Wren Bull Thanks both… 🙂

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Marie Faulkner Hi, My question is how much experience/ what level of studying you should be at before considering offering bookkeeping as a service? Ive done a little bookkeeping – veterinary practice and husbands decorating business – and am just about at the end of Financial Statements module…thank you.

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Barry de Graff If you are confident in what you do, then go for it. Potential clients will soon gauge whether or not you have the ability to do the job. It all depends on how much they want you to do & whether you feel competent in doing that work.

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Marie Faulkner Ok, thankyou…is there any particular software I should be able to use?, I currently use quickbooks and I have used Sage line 50….Will potential clients expect me to have particular software installed? Thank you

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Natasha Everard I like excel and VT Transaction 🙂

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Marie Faulkner Thanks Natasha Everard….am I right that spreadsheets is the next module after FTST?

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Barry de Graff You can do the units in any order Marie so go for spreadsheets if that is the most useful for you.

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Marie Faulkner Great, thank you…I didn’t realise you do them in any order…that’s helpfull.

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Yulia Taylor Hello Barry, Natasha and everyone

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Natasha Everard hi Yulia 🙂

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Marie Faulkner Hello Natasha….thanks for organising this….

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Natasha Everard you’re very welcome 🙂

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Lindsey Evans Yes thank you for this opportunity 😊

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Sam Cole Hi, my question is similar to others. I have done voluntary book keeping for charities, husbands business etc. I have qualified Aat 2 and working on level 3. Would this be enough to start up? What other support would I need? How would I go about this?

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Barry de Graff My reply to Marie above really applies here. If you are confident enough to do what a client asks then go for it. If not, say so. They will welcome that more than you taking the job & then struggling to complete it.

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Sam Cole Thank you. Would I need to register with anyone? Or could I complete self assessment tax form?

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Natasha Everard you would need to register with the HMRC for MLR (Money laundering £125), ICO if you hold clients details at home, indemnity insurance too 🙂

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Natasha Everard Also to hmrc as an agent

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Yulia Taylor Natasha, should We registered as an Agent for all bookkeeping service or only for tax return?

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Lindsey Evans Hi there, I am also an AAT student who will be completing level 4 next year and don’t want to start Bookkeeping until I have a ‘model’ in place and know 110% what I’m doing. I have most things set in my head but how do you get the confidence to actually start and put this ‘model’ in place and how do you decide which software to use?

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Barry de Graff Remember that you don’t need to use expensive software if it is not necessary. Personally, I just use Excel to generate invoices & keep my accounting records. If that is sufficient then there is no point in using more. The same is probably true for many small clients. A simple cash book on a spreadsheet is probably enough.

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Wren Bull I’ve used VT Cashbook which is free and looks a little like Sage light…..

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Lindsey Evans Thanks guys! That’s fab! I have 1 potential client who would be fine with spreadsheets and 1 who is insisting on some kind of software.

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Natasha Everard I like the fact you can import/Export from excel in VT easily

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Yulia Taylor I would like to ask about first essential steps to set up bookkeeping business. What documents is necessary and how much could it cost (including insurance); also how and where better advertising your business for gaining clients?
And after you found clients what is usual agreement: just verbal or kind of contract.

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Barry de Graff You would need to obtain quotes from a broker for professional indemnity insurance depending on the level of cover you need, which will all depend on the type & number of clients you have. An essential first step though is registering with HMRC.

I would always have an agreement in writing with the client as to the work required so that everyone is clear about what is agreed. Often referred to as an engagement letter.

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Yulia Taylor Thank you Barry.
About professional indemnity insurance – do I need to but it before taking any clients or after I found first client?

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Natasha Everard I had mine in place before 🙂

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Yulia Taylor Thank you Natasha

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Tamara Salter Natasha Everard Out of interest if you don’t mind answering, where did you get your PI insurance from and how much did it cost you?

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Natasha Everard http://www.trafalgarinsurance.co.uk/ i think it was around £80 per year.

Professional Indemnity Insurance from Trafalgar Insurance

TRAFALGARINSURANCE.CO.UK

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James Gilleade-Smith Natasha I have just had a quick look at this but it says they won’t give you it if your an AAT student?

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Natasha Everard Hold…let me get my file out 🙂

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James Gilleade-Smith It asks if your an AAT student and if you click yes it comes up “Unfortunately, we cannot issue cover for AAT student members”

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Natasha Everard Ah it change…so i moved to Arlington insurances.

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Yulia Taylor I also did not find ACCA members

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Aran Taylor Im in the process of setting up atm just waiting on funds for HMRC registration should be in the next couple of weeks do you have any advice for attracting clients ive helped a few friends with tax returns and im going to do personal tax as my first level 4 unit so i feel confident to offer tax returns and bookkeeping the only thing im not sure about is year end accounts and financial statements im confident i could put it together but from a legal point of view what exactly can i offer? ive just finished level 3 and im being trained to do the p/l for 4 businesses the company i work for owns and am going to be trained on creating the budget for them as well can i use any of these new skills im building in the business? maybe consultancy? Will be putting my all into this to make it a success any advice on any aspect would be massively appreciated

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Barry de Graff Again, it’s all about what you are comfortable with – if you are not sure, don’t do it! Legally, there is nothing you cannot offer aside from audit, investment advice, etc, So far as marketing is concerned, word of mouth is by far & away the best. Advertising has little impact in this sphere I have found.

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Tracy Gascoigne I find it really confusing regarding what you are allowed to do without an AAT licence. It clearly says on their website that you cannot offer freelance services if you are a student member without a licence which seems mad when you can offer it without any qualifications at all. So is the real answer then you can be a freelance bookkeeper whilst studying still but never to mention you are AAT qualified?

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Barry de Graff Indeed, if you do not mention AAT then you are fine. However, the advantage is that it does add credibility to your offer.

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Aran Taylor I think before you start and have your first client theres always going to be a little bit of uncertainty just got to go for it ill start with bookkeeping and tax returns and see where it takes me thanks barry

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Barry de Graff Exactly right Aran. I was in a 10 partner practice of chartered accountants for 20 odd years but have now set out on my own & it is very much by word of mouth that the business is building up.

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Tamara Salter How did you attract your first client Barry de Graff?

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Barry de Graff They actually approached me Tamara! They’d heard of me from elsewhere & asked if I would act for them. I’d spent a tidy sum on business cards but it was actually via Facebook that I received a message from them. 🙂

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Aran Taylor I cant wait to set out on my own one more point for tax returns do i need to register with the hmrc as an agent or do i just go to the clients and fill it in for them using their logon to HMRC infront of them might seem like a stupid question but id rather be crystal

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Barry de Graff Best to register as an agent & then you can use the same log-in for however many clients you might attract.

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Aran Taylor thanks barry ill do that soon as im registered with them for mlr

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Marie Faulkner Are there any recommended courses for doing tax returns?, I do my husbands tax return but it is very straightforward/ Can you help with this one please Natasha Everard?

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Natasha Everard The HMRC do great webinars on this and level 4 Personal tax is awesome for the self assessment but my best advice is to call the HMRC and ask questions.

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Marie Faulkner Thanks

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Barry de Graff Once you register with HMRC you get lots of emails with details of the webinars Natasha has referred to – do make use of them because they are very useful.

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Yulia Taylor Do HMRC have similar webinars for payroll?

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Barry de Graff They do indeed Yulia. Hardly a day goes by when I don’t get an email for one or the other! Also, I use Sage Payroll & they do webinars too.

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Yulia Taylor Thank you Barry

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James Gilleade-Smith This might sound silly, I am excited about considering starting up a bookkeeping service, but at the back of my mind I am thinking what if it’s different from what I’ve studied in level 2 and 3. I feel like theres a catch somewhere.

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Natasha Everard Level 3 prepares you for final accounts, vat returns, using excel to produce your accounts etc. It helped me get my clients.

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Marie Faulkner Must admit…..the case studies in my books seem much more straight forward than I would expect real life to be!, is this the case?

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Barry de Graff Your studies give you the knowledge that you need James. The key is to be adaptable to the client’s situation which is why you will find exam questions worded slightly differently each time. Transferable skills & the ability to adapt are really very important.

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James Gilleade-Smith Marie that is exactly what I think too.

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Carly Barnes How do you decide what to charge clients if just starting out?

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Natasha Everard Great question 🙂

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Wren Bull I went on a business start up course and was told the best way to work out what you should be charging would be to do a personal financial statement to work out your outgoings and what you need to live, decide how many hours you want to work and divide one by the other to get an hourly rate…..

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Barry de Graff Negotiation is key. Aim as high as you think you can & be prepared to move down. Make it clear from the outset that you want the job but it has to be a realistic charge for the services you are offering.

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Lindsey Evans Is charging an hourly rate better than setting a monthly fee?

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Barry de Graff Personally, I charge an hourly fee, That way, if the client asks for something extra, they know exactly how much it will cost them.

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Barry de Graff A point worth mentioning is that it is worthwhile considering a voluntary registration for VAT even if you do not reach the turnover limits, particularly if your clients are VAT registered themselves. This will mean that you can reclaim the VAT on you…See more

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Barry de Graff Any questions not answered so far? 🙂

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Carly Barnes So much to think about!! Now downloading VT Cashbook and googling all the registrations 🙂 Been teaching since qualifying all those years ago and setting up own business is something always wanted to do but just scared to do so!

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Lindsey Evans I’ve not had any experience with payroll, what courses do you suggest so I could offer that service?

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Barry de Graff I have to say that I was self taught! However, if you wanted something more formal than I would suggest CPP – Chartered Institute of Payroll Professionals, offered by a number of training providers or possibly a payroll course at your local College – that is something I used to teach locally, both manual & computerised.

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Lindsey Evans Great thanks!

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Marie Faulkner Just to add another one….. if you set yourself up as a ‘bookkeeper’, will clients expect you to do accounts up to TB?, Year end financial statements? payroll? tax returns? or is it up to you to state which services you offer?

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James Gilleade-Smith I have looked up a fe bookkeepers in my area and they all list what they provide.

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Wren Bull I had a client approach me to do a year end for a company, and when I told him I could only do a trial bakance but could then get an friendly accountant to do the final figures, he was fine with that. Of course, I checked with the accountant first and got a price!!

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Barry de Graff Barry de Graff Entirely up to you. You say what you can offer & if the client asks for something you are not familiar with, tell them so. They will appreciate that more than you saying you can then failing to deliver. 🙂

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Marie Faulkner Also….someone has suggested working for an accountant as a bookkeeper for experience – what do you think, Barry?

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Barry de Graff That is an ideal way to gain the experience & possibly clients. I had a student when teaching at college who helped out a colleague who also had her own accountancy practice & the student ended up becoming a partner with her. 🙂

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Marie Faulkner That’s helpful, thank you…

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Yulia Taylor I would like to ask what service (up to what level) can I officially offer as AAT student? As I understand right it is bookkeeping but what about tax return or payroll?
I do not ask about knowledge but about registration and regulations

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Barry de Graff It depends whether you are going to refer to your AAT qualifications or not Yulia. If you don’t, then you can offer any services with which you are comfortable other than the reserved areas – audit etc. If you intend to do so as an AAT member in practice then you must demonstrate competence in the services you are offering.

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Yulia Taylor Are there any restrictions?

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James Gilleade-Smith How would you recommend getting yourself known out there for gaining clients. Should I get an ad in my local paper? Send fliers out to all the local businesses? Fb ad? Yellow pages?

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Barry de Graff I tried all of those James & ultimately it was just about talking to people, particularly for me on Facebook or through former colleagues at the college where I taught, It can be worth joining your local chamber of commerce or similar or other business network groups.

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Natasha Everard For those who have passed their AAT level 3 can now apply to be a Licenced Bookkeeper!! Search the AAT website for more details

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Lindsey Evans Oooh I didn’t know this! Thanks!

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Marie Faulkner Is that level 3 bookkeeping and ethics or level 3 diploma in accounting?, Natasha Everard

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Jo McAllister I had an email regarding this but be aware you cannot do do personal tax teturns withbthe AAT bookkeeping license. So for me its no good as I already do more than it allows!

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Natasha Everard Marie Faulkner AAT diploma in accounts or bookkeeping with indirect tax

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Marie Faulkner Thank you….and thanks again for yesterday evening…..I’m really inspired now – gonna get Financial Statements module completed, make a start on worksheets and then…..go for setting myself up as bookkeeper!

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Yulia Taylor Great news, Natasha Everard
Thank you

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Natasha Everard www.aat.org.uk/membership/associate-bookkeeping-membership

AAT associate bookkeeping membership | AAT

Our bookkeeping membership offers you the opportunity to demonstrate your bookkeeping skills and expertise to employers, colleagues and clients. You’ll gain professional recognition using the designatory letters AATQB after your name, and can even apply to become self-employed and offer bookkeeping…

AAT.ORG.UK

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Barry de Graff Anything which adds credibility to your offer is good & should be used, Ultimately, it’s about building a reputation. If you provide a good service, word will get round & the business will grow. Sounds glib but it’s true.🙂

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Natasha Everard Does anyone have any further questions for Barry this evening? I would to say a big thank you to everyone who participated tonight and for Barry answering all those questions you were firing at him!!! Thank you all!!

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Barry de Graff And one of the key issues I have found is timeliness. Clients want their books back as soon as. Get the work done in a reasonable time period & they will come back again. 🙂

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Tamara Salter Thank you for organising Natasha Everard & thank you for answering Barry de Graff 🙂 I am definitely getting nearer and nearer towards taking the plunge and setting myself up.It’s just a matter of believing in myself and going for it

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Yulia Taylor Thank you Natasha and Barry. It was brilliant.

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Carly Barnes Thank you both that has been very helpful

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Natasha Everard Your turn next week 😉

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Carly Barnes Eeek!!!!!

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James Gilleade-Smith whats next week?

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Natasha Everard AAT Tax modules 🙂 Next Thursday at 7pm 🙂

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Marie Faulkner Ooo…what level is that aimed at?

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Natasha Everard Level 4 🙂

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Carly Barnes I’ll try my best to answer your questions on PTAX and BTAX 🙂

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Lindsey Evans Thank you very much!!

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Aran Taylor thanks barry very helpful

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James Gilleade-Smith thank you Natasha for arranging this Q&A and than you Barry de Graff for all the useful info you have given it has helped loads

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Marie Faulkner As above….thank you both Natasha Everard and Barry de Graff for a very intersting and informative hour….I’d better go and get the children to bed now!!!

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James Gilleade-Smith It was mentioned somewhere that you could simply use excel, if you were to use excel would you have it all in one work book, or would you create folder with many work books? As an example have a work book for eacch week/month.

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Barry de Graff I have one work book with links from one sheet to another so that I can produce monthly & yearly accounts as required.

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Sam Cole Thank you Natasha Natasha Everard, Barry de Graff very helpful again😊

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Sam Cole How do you download VT cash book?

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James Gilleade-Smith http://www.vtsoftware.co.uk/cashbook/download.htm

VT Cash Book Download

VTSOFTWARE.CO.UK

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Sam Cole Thankyou😊 will give that a go

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Jackie Hunter What are the recommendations for software for accounts production and tax comps. Have looked at vt but wandered if anyone uses anything else?

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Antoniya Kurteva It was very helpful, thank you !

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Setting up your business with Barry de Graff