Good evening AAT’ers & everyone else! The magic hour of 7pm has arrived. Hope everyone is having a splendid Easter weekend. smile emoticon
Today we have a Q&A on all things tax related, Indirect Tax at Level 3, Business & Personal Tax at Level 4, perversely some of my favourite subjects. Unlike most other things in the AAT syllabus, there is very little logic to some of the rules, mainly because they were written by politicians with specific aims. So, there is often no other way than to simply learn those rules! Sorry…
I’m Barry, a tutor with Premier Training and I will try & answer as many questions as possible this evening. Any that are not covered, we will respond to over the course of the next few days.
Over to you…
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18Paula Rutter, Jane Hasler and 16 others
Comments
Natasha Everard Awesome t-shirt!!! In your opinion….why do you think Personal Tax has the lowest pass rate?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:01
Tracey Hunter Thanks Barry
My question is which one should I do first for level 4 I’m doing both taxes as my choices
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:02 · Edited
Barry de Graff It’s a curious one Natasha because a lot of people have experience of their own tax situation which is why I often recommend it for study. It’s probably down to the “curious” legislation…
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:02
Barry de Graff For Level 4 Tracey? I’d say start with Personal Tax – it’s not as “big as Business Tax & there are some overlaps.
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:03
Natasha Everard Is there any easier for learning what information goes in which box for the VAT Return?
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:04
Paula Rutter hey that was mine
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:04
Natasha Everard HA HA…did you know i can read your mind lol
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:05
Write a reply…
Paula Rutter hello
as Btax and ptax are optional units do we need to do both of them. how do they differ in mapping our future. think I’m doing both.
(can we do other optional as well as these two. like can I do both tax and credit management ?)
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:04
Tracey Hunter It’s been a while since I did indirect tax. Is it worth me going over the notes again just to refresh my memory or is it not really linked
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:05
Paula Rutter I’m doing indirect tax next any tips on how to approach this
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:06
Barry de Graff VAT returns can either be very straight forward if you’re a simple VAT trader like me or quite complex if you sell to European other countries. Sadly, the AAT syllabus demands you know both & there is really no easy way other than to practice what goes where I’m afraid.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:06
Paula Rutter why are ptax and Btax notoriously hard. I’ve heard some exams are nothing like the coursework do u think this is fair
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:06
Wren Bull Hi Barry, I’ve got a question about VAT and farms as I’m going to be doing the VAT for my sister in law…. I seem to recall that a farm can reclaim part of the vat on improvements to the farmhouse as HMRC considers the house as a business premises, is that right? Is there a standard %age of costs that can be reclaimed?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:07
Barry de Graff Hi Paula, yes you can do as many optional units as you want. When I taught at the local college, we decided what units to teach but some students also wanted to do Auditing, for example, as that gave them exemptions for chartered exams. If you’re think about practice-based work both are important IMO. For management work in a company, Business is probably enough.
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:08
Barry de Graff As I said in the intro, they can seem hard because they’re illogical! Politicians decide what they want to tax & invent the rules to do so, therefore no easy way other than to learn those rules, a bit like being a lawyer.
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:10
Barry de Graff Hi Wren, the rules relating to farms are quite complex & outside the scope of the AAT syllabus so we’ll get back to you on that specific question. smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:11
Natasha Everard Do you how much the leap is from taking the tax modules to ATT qualification?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:12
Paula Rutter in i-tax there are references to use
is there anything like this in the level 4 ones ?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:12
Barry de Graff Yes, you’re given tax rates & tables. The front of text books generally mirror what is available in assessments.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:17
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Barry de Graff Indirect tax is relatively straightforward in the AAT syllabusPaula, especially as you’re given quite a bit of info in the exam: have a look at the AAT practice assessments for an idea.
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:13
Natasha Everard Do you think there will ever be a change with the AAT letting you take reference material in the assessment like some ATT assessments
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:13
Barry de Graff ATT is pretty much on a par with AAT in truth – just develops things a little further. I suspect it covers Inheritance Tax too but would need to check that.
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:14
Suzanna Rich Is the ITAX module more concept based or mathematically based. Or both !
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:14
Barry de Graff A fair bit of info is already provided in the tax assessmentsNatasha – I cannot see there is much more that could be given other than the answers to the questions! wink emoticon
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:15
Barry de Graff I’d say mathematical Suzanna although there are some discussion type questions on things like excise duties – but not very complex!
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:16
Natasha Everard I remember from my ITAX assessment that it was really important to read the question properly……something i dont always frown emoticon
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:17
Paula Rutter I did that yesterday in fstp
paid everyone salary
threw everything else out
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:19
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Suzanna Rich Having started on level 2, is it a stand a lone module, or does it follow on from anything that has been studied already?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:18
Barry de Graff The same is very true of most assessment Natasha! wink emoticon
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:18
Natasha Everard RTBQ!! As a certain ex-tutor of mine would always tell me
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:18 · Edited
Barry de Graff Knowing the rules about settlement discounts can helpSuzanna but it’s pretty much standalone.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:19
Hemal Jethwa Which is the best way to remember the vat return in indirect tax level 3, I find it a challenge to get even box right and sometimes confuse them.
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:19
Natasha Everard Do you think the course content for ITAX is enough to be able to offer the services of producing clients VAT returns once completed and passed?
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:20
Paula Rutter oh no not discounts again
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:20
Barry de Graff Hi Hemal. I’d say read the narrative against each box carefully every time. Learn what it means & use that to remind yourself about what goes where. The VAT return, again, was designed by politicians, or their agents, so may not always seem logical like debits & credits. Practice as any assessments as you can to get them right!
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:22
Tracey Hunter Are p and b tax mathematical also or a bit of both
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:23
Barry de Graff I’d say definitely yes Natasha. It pretty much covers all areas although it does not cover intrat returns so if you’re dealing with Europe a lot that’s another area to learn….
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:23
Paula Rutter are there extra resources available to help practice
assuming 2010 mocks would not be helpful now as the fa tax changes
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:23
Rosalyn Carrington I failed ptax 4 times and is there anything to help me pass all the rules and capital gains I remember a problem, benefits and exempt benefits and ptax has the lowest pass rate in the country
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:24
Barry de Graff More mathematical than anything Tracey but there are some written questions, such as how do we know if someone is employed or self-employed or is something a hobby or a business (badges of trade). There might also be a question about age allowances & restriction on income which asks you to draft a letter to a client.
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:25
Suzanna Rich Is it necessary to have knowledge of Vat and taxes already, or will this unit introduce everything as if you hadn’t studied it before?
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:26
Barry de Graff Paula – that’s always been the problem with tax I’m afraid due to legislation changes – never enough practice assessments!! Training providers will try to provide as many as they can as will text book publishers. AAT usually have 2 available.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:27
Barry de Graff Hi Rosalyn – do you particularly need PTax for work?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:28
Barry de Graff Suzanna – it assumes no prior knowledge. smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:28
Natasha Everard Saying then that tax is the some hardest units….which, in your opinion, are the easiest optional units?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:30
Tracey Hunter It’s definitely not financial performance lol
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:31
Natasha Everard Tracey Hunter i totally agree…….PFFF!!
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:32
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Paula Rutter AAT allegedly admit cash management is hard and are looking into this – is there a way we can prepare for twists on level 4 exams in your opinion?
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:31
Barry de Graff Cash Management & Credit Control! Both quite similar but not as much fun as Tax IMO….. grin emoticon
Like · Reply · 3 · 26 March at 19:31
Paula Rutter so why do u love tax
what makes it u tax loving guru
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:32 · Edited
Barry de Graff I think Financial Performance is the hardest but that’s a “no option” unit… wink emoticon
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:32
Natasha Everard I passed level 3 cash management so thinking this may be good for level 4 but will take both tax units too.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:33
Suzanna Rich I read quite a few comments from people who have struggled to pass ITAX? Apart from obviously everyone’s different, are there common mistakes that people make?
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:33
Barry de Graff Not particularly. I had a student at college who completed the exam in 20 minutes & passed! I don’t think I’ve had a student yet who has failed it so perhaps I’ve been lucky…
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:37
Suzanna Rich or perhaps you’re a great tutor!
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:38
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Barry de Graff It’s what I did during the latter years of my life in practicePaula. I loved the quirkiness of the rules, even though I also love the logic of double entry! Even if a client understood debits & credits, they would usually leave the tax return to me!
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:34
Paula Rutter so what do we need to do to comply with cpd when we are qualified if we deal with tax for our clients
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:35
Paula Rutter my dad worked in tax for 40 years 🙊
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:35
Barry de Graff Attend as many budget briefings as you can. When I was in practice we had sessions for both clients & staff the day after budget day from one of the large national firms who had been up all night analysing the changes! Get involved in one of the many CPD training groups around the country.
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:39
Paula Rutter how do we search these groups?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:39
Barry de Graff Have a look on the AAT website – they have regional groups in many areas who will be able to put you in touch.
Like · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:44
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Barry de Graff I taught the same group at college for Levels 3 & 4 & we did Cash Management at both levels when the standards changed. They liked that…
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:35
Natasha Everard What is your number one top tip when studying TAX?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:38
Barry de Graff Put in the time to learn the rules. There really are no easy answers & try to find as many different ways of presenting the rules too – some book publishers manage to put things slightly differently which can make all the difference so if you are struggling, consider obtaining anothe roublisher’s book for that unit – I’ve used Kaplan’s material in the past & they do seem to be good at tax.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:41
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Ana M Cancela Any tips to remember the sole traders starting to trade tax year rules please
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:39
Barry de Graff That can be another challenging area Ana – it’s often the second tax year which is the tricky one, depending on the date if the first accounts, Concentrate on learning the rules for that second tax year & you’ll have cracked it. Again, look at how different publishers present this – I recommend Kaplan’s material.
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:43
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Natasha Everard So does anyone else have any other questions for Barry this evening?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:44
Ana M Cancela Thank you Barry, is all a bit daunting
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:45
Natasha Everard Any further questions?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:46
Paula Rutter is tax in like cima or acca ?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:46
Barry de Graff Certainly in ACCA. Not sure about CIMA.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:48
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Ana M Cancela Do you know why AAT is taking off the Tax and Ethics qualification?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:46
Barry de Graff That’s a puzzle to me – I haven’t seen any explanation for it. Natasha?
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:48
Natasha Everard I will find out and post at a later date.
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:50
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Barry de Graff For some, tax is a really interesting area, for others it IS daunting. At Level 4 you have the choice whether or not to do it. At level 3 indirect tax is really not too bad,,,,
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:47
Ana M Cancela But i really like it. As you say the rules don’t make sense, that is why sometimes i have a hard time with it.
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:48
Barry de Graff And then the only way is to learn them as much as you can even though they may not make sense & you wonder why!
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 March at 19:49
Rosalyn Carrington Barry I want to pass this – ptax as one of the units I have chosen -not for work
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:50
Barry de Graff That’s great – send me a DM Rosalyn & let’s see if we can help you to crack it!
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:51
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:52
Natasha Everard A private message to barry himself
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:52
Barry de Graff A direct message. smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 26 March at 19:52
Rosalyn Carrington Done
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:55
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Paula Rutter I hope I enjoy it then
Thanks Barry de Graff for date night really interesting
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:50
Tracey Hunter Some interesting questions asked
Unlike · Reply · 3 · 26 March at 19:52
Suzanna Rich This has been a great session! Thanks Barry and Natasha, I really apreciate it!
Unlike · Reply · 3 · 26 March at 19:52
Ana M Cancela Thank you Natasha and Barry
Unlike · Reply · 2 · 26 March at 19:53
Natasha Everard Okay so we are nearing the end of our session. I would like to thank Barry de Graff for his time and knowledge this evening. If any of you would like to leave any further questions then i am sure Barry de Graffwill be more than happy to answer at a later date. Thank you all!!!
Like · Reply · 4 · 26 March at 19:54
Barry de Graff No problem folks, like I say tax is an area that I find interesting and some think that’s sad(!) but it is an area which many clients struggle with, understandably, so it can be something which is really useful as a service.
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